Humans on the Moon

Josh · #1 (**permalink**) 11-January-2004, 10:04 AM

Okay so now we're hearing lots of news about Bush announcing a permanent human presence on the moon. It is great news! no doubt! I want it to be real and I'm pretty sure that most of you want it too. It would be the thing we've all dreamed of. One step closer to the future we all think about when we think of the space programme.

That said ... I was just reading an article on one of the news websites about the announcement and why people thought it was needed as the next logical step in human evolution/expansion. As the days come closer I've been more and more anxious to hear/read the words that might allow us to go there again. But I just realised I don't think it's real ... I don't think it's going to happen. Not because of money, not because of political or government change. Nothing like that. I just didn't feel it. Now, it occured to me that if someone like me, who wants it so badly, doesn't think it's going to happen then what are those less enamoured with human space travel thinking and feeling? The thing is that no matter how much you say you're going to do something, if in the back of your mind you really think you aren't then it probably won't happen. Like going to the gym. Everyone says, I'll go to the gym and get really fit and stuff but for most it never happens. You might have every intention of going, telling the absolute truth when you say it. You might even actually join up and go ... once. But the reality is that you say it and right there and then without admitting it to yourself you know you ain't going. With regards to a permanent human presence on the moon, I really do believe it'll happen one day ... just not now. Even though I want it to!!

So does anyone else feel like this?? Tell me I'm wrong! I'll be more than happy to be wrong. Or tell me how to change it.

thomastech · #2 (**permalink**) 11-January-2004, 10:50 AM

Think positive Josh!

Josh · #3 (**permalink**) 11-January-2004, 11:54 AM

It's not about positive thinking .. that's the whole point. It's about positive feeling. How does that bit happen?

imported_lunatic · #4 (**permalink**) 11-January-2004, 06:09 PM

It will not happen unless we make it happen. I want to believe that it will happen and I will fight for it to happen. Write to your congressman, donate money to lobying organizations like the National Space Society. I am still in high school and can't do much, but I do what I can, because I want this to become a reality. The reason it doesn't feel real to us now is because that it hasn't been real for so long. I was born in 1985, and so I have never known a space program other than the space shuttle. I have never felt what my parents and grandparents felt when man landed on the moon. Therefore, I have this inbred sense that it cannot happen, because I have never known it to happen. Now, you're probably older than me, and you may be old enough to remember the moon landings, I don't know. So that may not be the case for you. But it is the case for many people. Nevertheless, that does not mean that it cannot happen. The only reason it won't happen is because people don't believe it will happen. I'm sick of LEO, I want to go somewhere new. I am starting college next year, and I will soon go out into the world, and I will be at an age where I will be able to at least live under the illusion that I can make a difference (lol), and so will many of my friends. If we fight for this, we can make it real. But it will not become real all by itself.

damienpaul · #5 (**permalink**) 12-January-2004, 01:55 PM

I am still convinced that private organisations will eventually see the worth of having an off planet industrial base. But it will come also down to private individuals either financing or pushing for the permanent base to go ahead. It may not be a case of thinking positive but looking for the positives/advantages in such a venture.

thomastech · #6 (**permalink**) 12-January-2004, 05:45 PM

Houston, local ABC TV just reported "again" that George is going to announce a "permanent presence on the moon in preparation for future space exploration"

They also said that George is not going to make it a "Space Race" again...
...they said that he does not see us getting to the moon for another 10-15 years!

thomastech · #7 (**permalink**) 12-January-2004, 05:50 PM

They also said that he is going to phase out the Shuttle program by 2010!

imported_lunatic · #8 (**permalink**) 12-January-2004, 05:51 PM

10-15 years from now is better than never at all. In fact, it's quite good for me, because as a high school senior, 10-15 years from now is the perfect time for me to be old enough to be involved :P

thomastech · #9 (**permalink**) 12-January-2004, 05:57 PM

lunatic, Did you get the postcard I sent you?

dbaer · #10 (**permalink**) 12-January-2004, 08:25 PM

lunatic has an interesting take on the subject of collective expectation. When my father was young, he was interested in aircraft, while his father thought they were just something for the government to waste tax dollars on (Gramps was not impressed with barnstormers or early Ford Tri-Motors that offered rides for $5 for 15 minutes, these were "just stunts"). My Dad's generation confidentely expected aviation to make steady improvments. During WWII, they told themselves that the postwar era would be remembered as "The Air Age" and they expected that "someday", flying would be as common as taking a train. When the Cold War spawned the space race, Dad and most of his generation saw it as a logical progression from aircraft to spacecraft and accepted that some of his tax money would be spent on it. To him, it was simply something that civilized people did in the name of progress. Even though he quit his job as a flight instructor in the early 1950's (said he was tired of teaching dilettantes), he still supported aviation by reading about it and using commercial flights when he had to travel. He also "allowed" me to cultivate an interest in flying and spacetravel. When the Apollo program ended, he regarded it as a "setback" but he'd seen setbacks before (like the Dole air race or the loss of Earhart or Post)and he expected us to get back on track before long. He was proud that Americans were the first people on the moon, and tickled that he'd lived long enough to see it with his own eyes. Since he passed away in 1980, he was spared the knowledge that he'd also lived long enough to see the last people land on the moon. Where ever he is now, he's probably fuming about how long we've let this "setback" stall us. I think our best hope is to "keep the ground fertile" for space exploration by contributing to sites like this, study about space exploration and continue to send notes to your congrassman that support space activities. If we keep the idea current in people's minds, then we are still in the game.

Matthew · #11 (**permalink**) 13-January-2004, 12:59 AM

Quote:

They also said that he is going to phase out the Shuttle program by 2010!

That's no big deal, if something else replaces it. Maybe a moon shuttle?

A moon mission in 10-15 years would mean that it would invariably cost the US government less money to return to the moon. Does the US want to beat China to the Moon though? If they do 15 years from know puts us to 2019, 1 year before the Chinese hope to be on the Moon.

damienpaul · #12 (**permalink**) 13-January-2004, 01:03 AM

and what about the europeans and japanese - it'll only be a matter of time until they are ready and make their attempts to the moon and beyond.

tycho1981 · #13 (**permalink**) 13-January-2004, 01:06 AM

i hope that china will not accept this and go faster to moon

then the moon race start again

Josh · #14 (**permalink**) 13-January-2004, 01:10 AM

I certainly think it'll happen eventually. I think the fact that Bush is saying 10-15 years which is way passed any sort of real influence he has on it shows that it's just talk. I think phasing out the shuttle completely is a bad idea and instead the shuttle should be converted to a totally space based vehicle (as per this thread)

So are you all saying that you really feel that it's going to happen?

imported_lunatic · #15 (**permalink**) 13-January-2004, 01:55 AM

I am saying I am going to fight for it. I found a page with all the addresses of my home state representitives, now I just have to write a letter eloquent enough to merit sending to them :unsure:

Okay okay quick Colorado inside joke:

Dear Senator Allard,

What Kind of Man would NOT support the space initiative?

*laughs hysterically and wonders why everyone's looking at me funny* :blink:

Mark, thanks for the postcard -- cute dog, tehee :P I went to your web page, it's pretty cool! Although I don't do much online shopping, if I ever need anything I'll know where to go. I'm glad you liked my page, it hasn't been updated in ages lol

Matthew · #16 (**permalink**) 13-January-2004, 02:00 AM

Well Josh it has to happen sometime, we will eventually go back to the Moon, If it will be within the next 15 years is really up to America.

damienpaul · #17 (**permalink**) 13-January-2004, 04:08 AM

If they cooperate, meaning the Americans, Russians, Chinese, Japanese and the Europeans then maybe we might be able to get their quicker, although I have major doubts about that ever occurring.

thomastech · #18 (**permalink**) 13-January-2004, 06:53 PM

Space.com has a long story on this...

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/moon...e_040113-1.html

#19 (**permalink**) 14-January-2004, 02:43 AM

What ezactly does the moon offer? Is the moon worth such investment. Aboost towards further galaxies? Is water the main resource? I'm a little skeptical. <_<

thomastech · #20 (**permalink**) 14-January-2004, 02:55 AM

The goal is not the Moon.

The goal is "Human Space Exploration"

The Moon is the logical next step!

dshan · #21 (**permalink**) 14-January-2004, 11:17 PM

Well Bush has made the announcement, back to Luna by somewhere between 2015-20, Shuttle to be flown until 2010 and the ISS is finished thus satisfying U.S.'s obligations to it's international partners. Robot probes to the Moon to resume by 2008, incl MER-type rovers apparently. A very general and non-specific call for international cooperation on the Moon project. New CEV (Crew Exploration Vehicle) to be developed and first flown by 2008 (first crewed mission to be by 2014) that can supply crew to ISS and be crew transport mooncraft. It's clearly the OSP by another name and will certainly be some form of capsule probably based on Apollo CM. What about a lander though?

All good stuff as far as it goes but the wide margin of 2015-20 for returning to the Moon is a worry--giving a mob like NASA such a wide target ensures they'll take until at least 2020, they need a sharp implement in a sensitive place, a definite and non-negotiable date to get them moving and out of their stupor. The pollies will also then have plenty of scope to kill the project off slowly over time without a more concrete date, that's very bad.

The ISS partners should all get together ASAP and decide to terminate the ISS project ASAP and join up to go to the Moon and build a base there instead (much of the h/w and development money they've spent on ISS modules, lifesupport systems, etc. should be useable for Moon bases.) The Shuttle should be retired before 2010 if possible, 2008 woud be good. The sooner the deadweight of ISS and Shuttle can be lifted from everyone's shoulders the sooner we can get back to the Moon and the less money will be wasted on dead-end stuff like ISS.

Anyway Bush has appointed a review panel to look at NASA and how to best achieve the goals he's outlined. Hopefully private sector developed launch vehicles and so forth will get a look in here and more details on h/w requirements, etc. (I feel the old Earth Orbit Rendevous/Lunar Orbit Rendevous argument firing up again already!) can be thrashed out.