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Old 12-July-2005, 04:46 PM
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Last year the Genesis probe crashed into the desert and a good number of the collector plates were recovered, and are being analysed by people at Los Alamos. But we have not heard a single peep about this in a long time, except an April 2005 press release saying that the fragments are in remarkably good shape.

I clicked on the "Ask A Scientist" link from the Genesis website and sent this message to Derek W. Blackway:
Quote:
Hi Derek,

I clicked on the "Ask a Scientist" link from the Genesis website, and got your address.

Several of us (forum members on the Universe Today forum) have been expressing some interest in seeing the results of the Genesis mission, but so far nothing obvious has come out.

Now, I expect that there is probably a process being followed and that the data will be made public at some point, but I'd like to know what the process is, and how far along the process we are right now.

As a side question, if we are at a point that you can describe some preliminary results, I'd be very happy to interview you and write an article about this.

Thanks in advance.
I'll post here when I get a reply.
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Old 12-July-2005, 04:51 PM
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Thanks for asking the question. I'll be very interested in whatever you can find out.
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Old 12-July-2005, 11:50 PM
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I got this reply from Derek Blackway:
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> Despite the September hard landing of the Genesis Sample Return Capsule, studies of the nearly ubiquitous molecular film on the Genesis collectors continue. So far, all indications are that (1) it is generally very thin and did not interfere with solar wind collection, and (2) was from outgassing of spacecraft materials, especially RTV. Accordingly, the film is thin thanks to the stringent pre-launch requirements and the general elimination of the requirement for RTV on the fasteners.

>
> Second, there is still progress on studies focusing on how to clean the Genesis fragments. The preliminary study of Si has been "completed", but further work is going out to individual laboratories to optimize the processing of Si in general, as well as to accommodate individual analytical techniques. Moreover, cleaning procedures will need to be developed for each material separately.

>
> Third, the science teams are making Genesis solar-wind calibration standards for a variety of different elements. Some have already been completed and are being distributed to laboratories worldwide and/or will go to JSC curatorial to be requested by future researchers.

>
> Due to the Administration change at NASA headquarters it is not expected that the MIB report as to why Genesis's parafoil did not deploy and the circumstances leading up to the hard landing will be released for several months.
In short there is a thin film covering every one of the collectors, and they are studying how to remove the film without interfering with the measurments of the nuclei in the solar wind.
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Old 13-July-2005, 12:11 AM
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Cool, thanks Anton for taking the initiative to ask this question, I was wondering what was taking so long myself...

One question though, what did they expect to find when they sent the probe up?
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Old 13-July-2005, 04:12 AM
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Yes, thanks much!

Interesting how things like this work in the "real world"
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Old 22-July-2005, 04:29 PM
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The film of RTV may be a Godsend...allowing separation of pre- and post- Utah desert particles to the substrate.

....But, the landing failure truly compromised the mission: If unexpected dirt is present, how can it be quantified and separated from Utah dirt?
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Old 18-March-2006, 03:02 AM
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From the 2006 LPSC:

New Scientist: Crashed Genesis probe delivers solar wind

Quote:
But the task will not be easy – more than half of the samples appear too damaged to be useful and the remaining ones are chemically contaminated from the crash.
[...]
The new research is especially heartening for the team because more than half of the collectors smashed into pieces too tiny to study, and what pieces remained were covered by what researchers call a "brown stain".

This stain was caused during the crash when the spacecraft released molecules of gas, which then fused into long polymers on the collectors' surfaces when exposed to ultraviolet light from the Sun.

The brown stain contains carbon and oxygen, contaminating the pristine samples. But researchers have devised a number of ways to remove the stain – such as using ozone to react with the polymers. Removing the contamination is complicated and time-consuming, says Franchi: "But I don't think anybody's saying we can't do this."

"In principle, we might be able to do everything we started out to do," agrees Burnett.
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Old 18-March-2006, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101001
From the 2006 LPSC:

New Scientist: Crashed Genesis probe delivers solar wind
good article
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Old 21-March-2006, 02:56 PM
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I also read about this one in Indian newspaper that : the solar wind was gathered in the aperatus, but the machine fell into the sands, it was not shown there in the newspaper whether the genesis was ruined or not, it was only said that the "solar wind was caught by the genesis during the mission", now I have not available that paper cutting.

sunil
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Old 21-March-2006, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suntrack2
I also read about this one in Indian newspaper that : the solar wind was gathered in the aperatus, but the machine fell into the sands, it was not shown there in the newspaper whether the genesis was ruined or not, it was only said that the "solar wind was caught by the genesis during the mission", now I have not available that paper cutting.

sunil
The Genesis probe did indeed impact into the western desert of the United States. This was due to accelerometers that were installed the wrong way. The probe didn't "sense" when it was time to deploy its parachutes and impacted at about 200 mph. The probe casing was breached and many of the collection wafers were broken.

However, the Genesis team believes they will be able to extract useful material from the wafers and still be able to to some good science. You can read more about the project here.
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Old 21-March-2006, 03:19 PM
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thanks Hamlet for the information and the link.
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Old 05-December-2006, 07:01 PM
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Genesis findings solve Apollo lunar soil mystery


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Ever since astronauts returned from another world, scientists have been mystified by some of the moon rocks they brought back. Now one of the mysteries has been solved.

"We learned a great deal about the sun by going to the moon," said Don Burnett, Genesis principal investigator at California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, Calif. "Now, with our Genesis data, we are turning the tables, using the solar wind to better understand lunar processes."
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Old 05-December-2006, 07:25 PM
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I keep telling my wife that going out with lots of other women is a great way of better understanding her, but she doesn't seem to be impressed by my scientific approach to our relationship.

Seriously though, these are interesting findings. And it's good to hear that Genesis still is able to give scientific results after its, shall we say pronouced return to the earth's surface.
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Old 06-December-2006, 02:31 PM
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It also is more evidence against the hoax believers who say the lunar samples were created in a lab. How could scientists almost 40 years ago have created fake moon rocks that would agree with an experiment that wasn't even thought about (Genesis) back then?
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Old 06-December-2006, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
... And it's good to hear that Genesis still is able to give scientific results after its, shall we say pronouced return to the earth's surface.
That reminds me of part of Bill Dana's Jose Jimenez the Astronaut routine:

Interviewer: Mr. Jimenez, where will you be landing when you return to Earth
Jose: Nevada!
Interviewer: Nevada?
Jose: Yes, they say I will land in Nevada when I return to the earth. Just how far into the earth, well....
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Old 12-March-2008, 09:07 PM
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Genesis Finding: Earth Has a Problem

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Finally, the results are in. At the 39th annual Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston, Texas, Kevin McKeegan (University of California, Los Angeles) announced that the Sun has proportionately far more oxygen-16, relative to oxygen-17 and -18, than is present in terrestrial seawater. But the solar ratios follow the same trend seen in primitive meteorites.

Suddenly, Earth is the odd planet out. "We had little idea what the Sun's ratios should be," McKeegan told me after his presentation. Now, he says, there's "no plausible model" to make Earth with the oxygen ratios it exhibits. "It's always been a challenge to supply Earth with the water it has. And now we're wondering how it got the rocks it has."

That view was echoed by Robert Clayton, a University of Chicago cosmochemist who's recognized as the grand master of oxygen-isotope research. "The CAIs were thought to be the anomaly and we were normal," Clayton explained. "But this result has turned that idea upside down."
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Old 15-March-2008, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
That view was echoed by Robert Clayton, a University of Chicago cosmochemist who's recognized as the grand master of oxygen-isotope research. "The CAIs were thought to be the anomaly and we were normal," Clayton explained. "But this result has turned that idea upside down."
Ok, so I'm not normal. I knew that...
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