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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 06-April-2006, 10:49 PM
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Dragon Star: a good motor without clutch will always have a large dead torque. They make the engine turn very fast (which is efficient) and through gears they lower the RPM and thereby increase the torque at the wheel.

The rsult is though, that a wheel going the other way around would need a large torque to turn the motor. Indeed probably such a large torque that the wheel would be dragged instead of turned.

So if you're not designing in a clutch, there is little need to have an emergency brake release for the situation Spirit's currently in.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 06-April-2006, 11:51 PM
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I understand what your saying, I suppose your right.

Found THIS, it seems that she does have a brake release that would allow it to continue without dragging along.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 07-April-2006, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Star
I understand what your saying, I suppose your right.

Found THIS, it seems that she does have a brake release that would allow it to continue without dragging along.
Those are steering actuators. When not actively steering, they resist the twisting of the wheel, and don't affect the turning of the wheel.

Quote:
Separate relay switches for steering actuators — small motors that control the steering to each of the two wheels — are affected. The wheels turn independently, and the steering setup works separate from the motor that makes the wheels roll.

When the actuators are not in use, electric relays are closed and the motor acts as a brake to prevent unintended changes in direction, according to the statement.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 07-April-2006, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
"If we do not identify other remedies, the brakes could be released by a command to blow the fuse controlling the relay, though that would make those two brakes unavailable for the rest of the mission," said JPL's Jim Erickson, rover project manager.
I was looking at that in particular.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 07-April-2006, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Star
I was looking at that in particular.
OK, but the braking they are referring to seems to be that offered by the resistance of the steering actuators to twisting of the wheels. It's something they can do if a steering actuator fails and they desire a wheel to be free to align itself in the direction it is being dragged.

Anyway...

To the topic -- well not exactly news, but good stuff -- from the Planetary Society Weblog, from Phil Stooke, Some great maps of the Mars Exploration Rovers' progress.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 07-April-2006, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101001
To the topic -- well not exactly news, but good stuff -- from the Planetary Society Weblog, from Phil Stooke, Some great maps of the Mars Exploration Rovers' progress.
Phil's a regular over at the Unmanned Space Flight forum, which is a great place to keep up with the rovers and other solar system probes. (Phil's maps actually appeared there first, before Ms. Emily grabbed them for her blog.)
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 07-April-2006, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101001
OK, but the braking they are referring to seems to be that offered by the resistance of the steering actuators to twisting of the wheels. It's something they can do if a steering actuator fails and they desire a wheel to be free to align itself in the direction it is being dragged.

Anyway...
Your just looking at it the other way I am is all, I see it as saying that disabling the brake is possible, but the result of blowing the fuse means loss of twisting control. But I understand what you mean, I guess the article was written purely is all...but isn't an actuator used to turn the wheels? If so then the term "brake" can not be used here because all that is, is resistance alone, not a brake, a brake resists rotation, and has only that purpose, no other. An actuator forces rotation or lack there of.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 08-April-2006, 02:02 PM
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The brake Ericson mentions is a brake in the steering actuator. It actually isn't a brake at all, it uses the steering motor itself, when switched off, as a braking device to prevent the wheel from changing direction. The question now becomes why there is no way to 'blow the fuse' on the driving motor of the wheel. I think (speculation alert!) that this could have been done but the designers didn't think it was worth the trouble, weight and increased complexity. A broken drive motor, like we have now, is never fatal because it can be dragged around quite easily. As long as your not in lose sand, low on solar energy and 27 months into the mission.... A broken steering actuator however, when fixed in a rotated position, actually is a fatal accident because the rover is not capable of dragging a wheel around when it is working as a sand scoop, digging itself in. So, the steering motor was a much higher priority to have a 'blowable' fuse than the driving motor.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 09-April-2006, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cugel
The question now becomes why there is no way to 'blow the fuse' on the driving motor of the wheel.
I'd speculate that failure analysis had something to do with it, too. If the steering actuator relay opened unintentionally, you would lose control of twist on a pair of wheels, but you can compensate. If the proposed drive motor relay opened unintentionally you would lose braking on a wheel, which could be fatal to a rover on an incline.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 09-April-2006, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101001
I'd speculate that failure analysis had something to do with it, too. If the steering actuator relay opened unintentionally, you would lose control of twist on a pair of wheels, but you can compensate. If the proposed drive motor relay opened unintentionally you would lose braking on a wheel, which could be fatal to a rover on an incline.
Maybe, but you would lose only 1/6 of your braking capacity. And besides, turning the steerable wheels to let's say 45 degrees or so after driving makes it unlikely for the rover to slide. Still, I believe when something gives up after nearly 10 times its design lifetime you can only stand up and applause. I don't see any reason to 'improve' anything on these machines.

BTW. They are still very much alife and kicking! I wouldn't be surprised if they lasted another 1 or 2 Earth years.
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 10-April-2006, 10:27 PM
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Last minute diversion takes Mars rover to safety

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NASA's Spirit rover has reached safety after weeks of scrambling with low power supplies to reach a place from which to weather the approaching Martian winter. The northern-tilting slope of the spot, dubbed Low Ridge Haven, will help maximise the sunlight reaching the rover's solar panels, ensuring its power stays above the minimum needed.
...
Spirit reached Low Ridge Haven over the weekend and as a result, the rover's power supply has been bumped up by as much as 20%, Squyres says. Science observations are just getting underway at the new site, but he says there are some "wonderful, finely-layered bedrock outcrops" there and it is likely the rover will remain there for the entire winter science campaign.
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 11-April-2006, 02:31 AM
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Wow, they made it? Awesome...
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 11-April-2006, 03:25 AM
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I understand why NASA makes these winter migrations, but I find them kind of funny. Sort of like bringing the herd down from its summer pasture up in the hills, down to the valley for the winter. I can see some astronauts riding Mars horses and Border Collies nipping at the heels of all the little rovers, keeping them moving.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 11-April-2006, 01:38 PM
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I don't think the Spirit rover will do lots more traveling in its life. It might go another mile. What they need to do is target some area they want to study inch by inch.

The Opportunity rover has had its share of trouble, but so far the drive-train is doing alright. Hopefully it will get to Victoria crater over the next couple of months, spend a month looking that over for deeper layers, and then hit the road cruising South or West for bigger more interesting terrain.
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 11-April-2006, 03:00 PM
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Folks on the UMSF are suggesting that Opportunity will go into Victoria and never come out. For one thing, there isn't anything of equivalent geological interest for many kilometers.
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 11-April-2006, 03:15 PM
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I read that. Maybe it won't come out. They thought it might not come out of Endurance Crater. I'm guessing they will exhaust their interest in Victoria, and give getting out a try, and eventually succeed. How long this will take, and whether the rover survives that long is anyone's guess.
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Old 11-April-2006, 04:07 PM
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I think Squyres at one point referred to the possibility of not being able to get out of Endurance as the horrible fate of "being locked in the candy store." Victoria should be the same and then some.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 11-April-2006, 05:05 PM
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I think that in Victoria, it will be harder to get close to something like Burns' Cliff. Further, with the grinder mostly dead, and the Mossbauer tool getting weak, there is probably less to do there than in Endurance. On the other hand I agree with Squyres about it being a good place to be stuck.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 11-April-2006, 07:37 PM
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I just think it's sad that Spirit has a wheel out of comission

Quote:
The Mars rover Spirit, hampered by a broken wheel, has failed to reach its destination and will spend the Martian winter at an alternate site, scientists said.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/0....ap/index.html
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