Erm?

What kind of thread title is that?

__________________
All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
─────────────────────────────────────────────
◄Rules For Posting To This Board ► ◄Forum FAQs ► ◄ Conspiracy Theory Advice ► ◄ Alternate Theory Advice ►

it redirects to a curious image without talk of it

And the point is?

Well, it is definitely a Chinese Long March rocket, probably a CZ-2F. The only thing I find curious about the picture is that the building looks remarkably similar to the VAB, only much smaller.

__________________
Webmaster, Rocket & Space Technology

Title edited. I think it behooves a thread originator to provide a descriptive title for the thread so that people can decide whether it's worth checking out.

__________________
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

And, personally, I'd respect articles more if their titles communicated content, rather than than sport attention-seeking punctuation marks like the recent (something like) ( ) ( ) ( ) EggCEV ( ) ( ) ( ) example. Pretend you're titling scholarly mini-papers, not marking up a men's-room wall. Thanks.

__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...

I've been reading alot of threads on the Chinese Shenzhou but not much on its next generation rocket
here are some discussions on Shenzhou
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4348
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2565
Shenzhou 5 Returns Safely to Earth
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/i...showtopic=1526

From what I've heard Chang Zheng 5 or LongMarch-V would be medium-Heavy ( able to place 20 plus tonnes in LEO), while CZ-6 or LM-6 would be their very heavy lifter launching up to 70 tonnes in LEO. The Chinese have 4 launch pads, Xichang, Taiyuan, the Jiuquan for manned flights and the new Hainan Spaceport ( also known for the spy plane incident between the US and China ) would be suited for the new CZ-5 Heavy ELV it was currently under expansion but construction has also been postponed many times.
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Ch...pace_Port.html
Perhaps they are waiting to see how thier next Shenzhou missions go before they start building a new Heavy Launcher

.

many talk of the chinese space program only as a "game" for a "newest rich country" that "wants only to show its ability with rockets"

but I don't agree with that opinions

the chinese VAB is a curiosity but (also) a good example of "how China does things" (when they want) and "how serious they are about their space program"

they WANT to launch manned vehicles?

well, they BUILD (first) a (NASA looking) VAB!

I think that (despite to-day's "old" vehicles) China will be the most serious challenger in the space exploration and business (and, probably, the winner)

China may reserve many surprises to us (and to the bigger countries) since they don't reveal (near) nothing of their future space programs

so, we can't know if, inside chinese space engineers computers, already runs some new ChinaAres, ChinaOrion, ChinaLSAM, etc...

.

Hmm..

__________________
The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.

Juan Pablo Montoya on the other hand, does know what the winner means .

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Not in F1...

__________________
What brings us together is stronger than what pulls us apart

a (possible) "winner" in the (new) "race" you prefer:

- land on the moon

- TV show/audience

- political prestige

- business and commerce leadership

- exploration "quality" (more missions, more hours, more rocks, more astronauts)

- etc.

.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Given the 24 hour news cycle in the US, the odds are we'll be watching EVERY landing that happens, when they start happening again.

Political prestige will be better manifest by doing it better, rather than faster. Besides, despite the rapid onset of the Chinese program, and the enduring capability of the Russian program, we've got a minor edge over them.

Over China: We've got the hardware maturity to support it. I've not a doubt that China will independently put a man on the Moon, the kicker is, they've got a lot of steps between where they are, and where they need to be to do it. They haven't had their first real setback yet, so its hard to say what their government will do WHEN that setback happens. (Not if, when, statistically you can't go forever without something catastrophic happening.)

Over Russia: We can afford it. Russia may be floating on money because of the bloat in oil prices, but now that its coming down below $70 a barrel, and matters in the Middle East settling back into something resembling the usual raucous business as usual, I wouldn't count on extending that run of luck at the oil well floating them for long. Aside from which, given the recent rumblings of the old bear in Putin's presidency, I'm willing to bet we'll see something of the inefficiency of a paranoid state run operation settle in, if matters aren't corrected soon.

NASA is not a business. Most of what NASA does is not bottom line friendly, they do the proof of concept work underwritten by the taxpayers, which gives them the luxury of "do it right, even if its not cheap". Not that this is always the case, in practice, but in theory, they've got the mandate to be a little extravagant in cost, if it means it works right, safely, every time it flies. (They tend to buy themselves a LOT of trouble when they step away from that mandate and start getting cost conscious.)

This is not a function of being there first. Mission endurance is a matter of hardware performance. Even so, we've still got a massive lead in this area because of the tons of lunar material brought back by Apollo.

__________________
The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.

That we know about...

__________________
What brings us together is stronger than what pulls us apart

ahem, what about the Long March that exploded and destroyed a village? No astronaut got killed in that accident, but that's about it for the positive side.

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

You don't have to be to know...

(don't try to combine this with "I think, therefore I am". Your head will explode. Too late.)

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

but MANY countries wish to print (first) that lunar-shirts...
but not with the same audience between the (new) first landing and the #2-up landings
(maybe) China will do it better AND faster
the moon missions need a capsule... China and Russia already have them... Orion needs 9+ years to fly (if the Ares-I will work...)
that still remains a very good price for a country that has so much of it
not the business of the space agencies... the business and commerce of the countries, aerospace industry, etc.
not (only) "first", but "more"
I don't know IF and WHEN China will land on the moon, but (I'm sure) ALL its hardware will be reliable and (many times) cheaper
then, the "higher quality" will come from more missions with more astronauts and more exploration & science hardware

How are you sure?

__________________
Webmaster, Rocket & Space Technology

I'm sure about the quality because the hardware for that missions MUST BE reliable (or no missions will be possible) and China already IS able to build hi-tech hardware
about materials, engineers and workforce that is due to the main economic law: demand/offer (I don't know if I've translated right)
with 400,000 new engineers (and an immense workforce) China will never have (for many decades) the high salaries' costs of USA, Europe and Japan

We call it supply/demand here in the US.

__________________
Webmaster, Rocket & Space Technology

I understand what you mean by their economics. They've got a lot of artificial measures imposed on their economy to prevent inflation from being a factor. Their currency doesn't suffer the regular devaluation that western currencies suffer (the US averages about 5-15% depreciation in the value of its currency every year). That's a completely different barrel of fish, though. In fact, that can actually work against them. If an engineer can make ten times the money in the States or in Europe that he can at home, then why work at home? (Another debate for another thread, perhaps, but it does defend your position)

That is true, but they've also got a lot of ground to cover in the process of building moonshot capable vehicles. My post wasn't meant to question reliability of Chinese equipment, just the timeframe to develop it. They've got an ambitious timeline, but their actual pace of testing and deployment is absolutely glacial compared to anyone else in the market.

__________________
The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.

their products are competitive all ove rthe world, no matter how its internal economy works
if (in future) they will sell a Shenzhou to another country, its price will be the price in US$ that country pay for it, no matter how this (low) price borns
India has 55,000,000 computer engineers
many of them work outside India for high salaries... but India always has many (good) engineers paid a few dollars per hour
the same for China... some engineers will work in Europe and USA, but great part of them MUST remain in China since there is NOT so much jobs around the world for millions new engineers
who can know what may happen in China in the next 15 years?
(while the ESAS plan will go ahead slow, quiet, with no rush, thinking twice, etc.)

True, for the time being we're stuck guessing based on how they've done other massive projects, and how they've conducted their previous space efforts.


Coming back to another point from earlier.

Fair enough, that they don't isolate their launch facilities in the middle of nowhere is tragic, but the US Explorer program started life as one of the most expensive fireworks shows in history before it worked consistently. I kinda was refering to a loss of crew event.

__________________
The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.

Sounds like China have it all sewn up. Lets just disband NASA and ESA and save the cash, Obviously noone can compete.

__________________
All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
─────────────────────────────────────────────
◄Rules For Posting To This Board ► ◄Forum FAQs ► ◄ Conspiracy Theory Advice ► ◄ Alternate Theory Advice ►

we must only be aware that China will be a strong competitor in future... ALSO on space

I would love to see them go straight on with the LM-6.