Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Science and Space > Space Exploration
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

View Poll Results: What's causing the surface changes on Mars: water or CO2?, or...
Liquid water 10 58.82%
CO2 out-gassing 3 17.65%
dust devils/wind 2 11.76%
Martians 1 5.88%
other 1 5.88%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-December-2006, 05:22 PM
banquo's_bumble_puppy's Avatar
banquo's_bumble_puppy banquo's_bumble_puppy is online now
Established Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Alpha III
Posts: 2,084
Default What's causing the surface changes on Mars: water or CO2?

I am skeptical that it is liquid water causing the surface changes on Mars. It has been speculated that some other medium could be causing these changes (ie. the outgassing of CO2). So here's the question- is it water or CO2 or some other medium?
__________________
The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. ~ Ernest Hemingway ...
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-December-2006, 08:21 PM
Squink Squink is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 565
Default

Here's a phase diagram for CO2
I don't see any way to get liquid CO2 on Mars, and gully looks to me more like a product of flowing liquid than the result of a gas outburst. If it were a gas outburst, shouldn't there be a pit, or circular debris field near the top?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-December-2006, 09:02 PM
Ostria Ostria is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13
Default

I found this article but its from 2001

Liquid CO2, Not Water, Likely Created Martian Gullies

http://unisci.com/stories/20012/0402013.htm

As it says here:
It's not liquid carbon dioxide flowing in the gullies.

"What's coming out is liquid CO2 that suddenly vaporizes," Musselwhite said. "As it comes out, it expands very quickly, cools, and actually produces CO2 snow. The snow is suspended in CO2 gas that hasn't solidified yet. Together with rock debris, it forms slurry. Geologists call it a 'suspended flow.' Suspended flow acts like a liquid. It doesn't take very much liquid each time to add to gully formation."

But Malin in his interview said:
"The attributes that we see, it moved very slowly on a steep slope, which means that it was changing its properties as it was moving downslope. But it's easily diverted around very, very subtle topography and it has very long, finger-like terminations at the ends of these flows. Those are all attributes of something that has liquid water in it."

Could Co2 creat this, before it vaporizes?
__________________
***There is geometry in the humming of the strings, there is music in the spacing of the spheres. ***
- Pythagoras
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-December-2006, 01:41 AM
gaetanomarano's Avatar
gaetanomarano gaetanomarano is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,833
Default

.

"water" is more exciting ...but "wind" is more rational

.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-December-2006, 01:48 AM
greenfeather's Avatar
greenfeather greenfeather is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Valley Forge PA
Posts: 601
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaetanomarano View Post
.

"water" is more exciting ...but "wind" is more rational

.
Yeah, water's exciting, but wouldn't it be frozen at the usual Martian temperature?
__________________
"I am happy to report that once again the universe is doing just great, thank you, purring with perfection, ever-changing same as always. Light is still cruising along at 186,000 miles per second, and the expanding universe shows no signs of contracting. At this rate, it won't be long before they'll have to let the photon belt out another notch."
Swami Beyondananda's 2007 State of the Universe address
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-December-2006, 03:11 AM
PhantomWolf's Avatar
PhantomWolf PhantomWolf is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lost Deimos Moon Base
Posts: 5,663
Send a message via ICQ to PhantomWolf Send a message via AIM to PhantomWolf Send a message via MSN to PhantomWolf Send a message via Yahoo to PhantomWolf
Default

Well as much as I'd love to be proven wrong on this one, I'm going with dust slippage causing a lighter area to be exposed rather than a salt deposit from liquid water. I can see how they think it is from water, but I really want more evidence before rushing to Mars for a glass of water.
__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-December-2006, 09:58 PM
JonClarke JonClarke is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canberra Australia
Posts: 3,221
Default

Which changes do you mean? We see lots of changes on Mars, caused by the wind, dust devils, mass movement, impact, deposition and sublimation of water and CO2 ice.

If you mean the recent gully deposits, then the probability is quite high that they are water related. None of the other processes can generate the combination of features we see in these gullies and their deposits. These include: sinuous trunk channels, tributary and distributary channels, levees, digitate fans, terrace deposits.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Manned mission to Mars banquo's_bumble_puppy Space Exploration 47 05-September-2007 05:59 AM
Do I have any bad meteorology in here? space cadet Off-Topic Babbling 15 24-October-2006 08:18 PM
Mars Express Confirms Liquid Water Once Existed on Mars' Surface Fraser Universe Today Story Comments 6 22-December-2005 04:02 PM
Alternative energy from small differences in water temperature neilzero Off-Topic Babbling 1 22-November-2005 02:52 AM
Fog in Valles Marineris YankeeJeff Space Exploration 12 11-April-2005 10:07 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today