|
| If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|||||||
| Register | FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Mark Forums Read |
![]() |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
|
||||
|
It has been a while, a few months in fact, since I have had real acess to a computer. What is the verdict, ice, carbon dioxide, or salt?
__________________
"The Internet is really, really great..." Avenue Q "And a disintegrator beam. People listen when you have a disintegrator beam."
mike alexander |
|
||||
|
Some of each.
What? You mean the white stuff? Water ice: article in this topic, live as covered in press briefing. A few articles forward gives Q&A and further on links to NASA press release and Planetary Society coverage. === As for the latest delivery attempt, this image (plus the before image of the scoop with sparse contents) makes me think not much soil hit the target. The screen looks pretty clean. (1804) ![]()
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
|
||||
|
Sol 86 Raw Images are beginning to arrive. Texas A&M University Phoenix SSI Raw Images Directory labels this sol:
Quote:
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
|
||||
|
BBC Science: Phoenix diary
Quote:
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
|
||||
|
Quote:
JPL Phoenix Mission News: Mid-Depth Soil Collected for Lab Test On NASA's Mars Lander Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
|
||||
|
2008-08-22_SOL_87 Press Release Images Gallery has one image, not really that cool, of the TECP, with pop-up caption speaking of Upper Cupboard trench and sol 86:
![]() It just makes me expect a press release about the TECP today, soon. Edit, 5 minutes later: That was quick. JPL Phoenix Mission News: Conductivity Probe after Trench-Bottom Placement Quote:
But, this sounds like implementation of the plan discussed in JPL Phoenix Mission News: Phoenix Mars Lander Explores Site by Trenching (August 20) to decide where to get the next sample for a MECA Wet Chemistry Lab, based on saltiness of Upper Cupboard. Edit: Well, let's have some purpose to this article. How about: a big block of Sol 86 Raw Images, over 300, have arrived.
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
|
||||
|
Guess what just began to arrive. Yes, Sol 87 Raw Images!
Guess how many. Yes, five, so far. This sol is labeled at Texas A&M University Phoenix SSI Raw Images Directory: Quote:
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
|
|||
|
Quote:
Bob Clark |
|
||||
|
Planetary Society Weblog: Phoenix sol 43 update (July 9):
Quote:
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
|
||||
|
Sol 88 Raw Images began arriving about 4 hours ago. Currently there are 250.
Texas A&M University Phoenix SSI Raw Images Directory has it labeled: Quote:
![]() They scooped a sample on Sol 87, probably from Upper Cupboard and stared at it for a while, more this sol, maybe looking for signs of salts, and then hovered over MECA Wet.
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... Last edited by 01101001; 24-August-2008 at 06:16 PM.. |
|
||||
|
Astrobiology Magazine: Liquid Water in the Martian North? Maybe.
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
|
||||
|
Quote:
Tucson Citizen: Mars Lander soil probe is topic at UA forum Monday (Registration may be required; it was for me upon a revisit.) Quote:
Quote:
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
|
|||
|
I've been informed that not only do the iron compounds known to exist on Mars catalyze the breakdown of organics at high temperatures but so also does perchlorate. This is consistent with what was said about perchlorate in the Mars Phoenix news conference that it was a weak oxidant but becomes more active at high temperatures.
Then a breakdown in the TEGA instrument of organics could be coming from two sources making their detection more difficult. Yet the detection of evolved CO2 only at high temperatures in TEGA tantalizing suggests they might be there. Because of the importance of detecting organics on Mars means should be investigated for mitigating the decomposing effects of the minerals in the soil on organics. One possibility would be by dissolving the iron compounds and perchlorate in liquid water, if a sample could be delivered to TEGA with a sizable ice content. Jarosite a ferric sulfate shown to decompose organics was proven by the MER rovers to exist on Mars and is soluble in water, as is also perchlorate. But when you heated the sample to detect the organics the water would evaporate and the iron compounds and perchlorate would precipitate out again so would presumably still have their oxidizing effect on the organics. But what if the iron compounds and perchlorate could be separated from the organics? MER rover scientists during the discovery by Opportunity of sedimentary deposits mentioned there appeared to be an "evaporation sequence" where different minerals precipitated out at different times. Did this mean they were present in separated layers? If so, then perhaps by slow heating of the water in the TEGA sample the iron compounds and the perchlorate could be made to precipitate out in separate well defined layers that would allow at least some of the organics not to come in contact with those layers. Bob Clark |
|
||||
|
Sol 89 Raw Images began arriving about 3 hours ago. Texas A&M University Phoenix SSI Raw Images Directory has it labeled:
Quote:
Delivery poses, TEGA oven #0, sol 64 and sol 89: ![]()
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... Last edited by 01101001; 25-August-2008 at 02:13 PM.. |
|
||||
|
Quote:
Maybe they plan to use the screen to allow soil particles to fall through as they dry, hoping that the screen would retain the delicate lacework of dried salt crystals. Thats what I would do. Maybe someone should phone Phoenix ![]() |
|
||||
|
And, that's a wrap. Time flies when you're having fun. That's 90 sols on Mars for Phoenix. End of nominal mission.
Thanks, folks. Have a safe drive home. But, wait. There's more. There's the extended mission! What new discoveries will our beloved Phoenix lander make? How will it cope with falling solar power? What icy fate awaits? See topic: Phoenix on Mars: Extended Mission Meet you there!
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
|
|||
|
Quote:
might work: =============================================== separation and purification :: Crystallization and precipitation -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia. Principles of specific methods » Equilibrium separations » Crystallization and precipitation. Crystallization is a technique that has long been used in the purification of substances. Often, when a solid substance (single compound) is placed in a liquid, it dissolves. Upon adding more of the solid, a point eventually is reached beyond which no further solid dissolves, and the solution is said to be saturated with the solid compound. The concentration of the saturated solution depends on the temperature, in most cases a higher temperature resulting in a higher concentration. These phenomena can be employed as a means of effecting separation and purification. Thus, if a solution saturated at some temperature is cooled, the dissolved component begins to separate from the solution and continues to do so until the solution again becomes saturated at the lower temperature. Because the solubilities of two solid compounds in a particular solvent generally differ, it often is possible to find conditions such that the solution is saturated with only one of the components of a mixture. When such a solution cools, part of the less soluble substance crystallizes alone, while the more soluble components remain dissolved. Crystallization, the process of solidifying from solution, is highly complex. Seed particles, or nuclei, form in the solution, and other molecules then deposit on these solid surfaces. The particles eventually become large enough to fall to the bottom of the container. In order to achieve a high purity in the crystallized solid, it is necessary that this precipitation take place slowly. If solidification is rapid, impurities can be entrapped in the solid matrix. Entrapment of foreign material can be minimized if the individual crystals are kept small. It is sometimes necessary to add a seed crystal to the solution in order to begin the crystallization process: the seed crystal provides a solid surface on which further crystallization can take place. The term precipitation sometimes is differentiated from crystallization by restricting it to processes in which an insoluble compound is formed in the solution by a chemical reaction. It often happens that several substances are precipitated by a given reaction. To achieve separation in such cases, it is necessary to control the concentration of the precipitating agent, so that the solubility of only one substance is exceeded. Alternatively, a second agent can be added to the solution to form stable, soluble products with one or more components in order to suppress their participation in the precipitation reaction. Such compounds, often used in the separation of metal ions, are called masking agents. Precipitation was used for many years as a standard method for separation and analysis of metals. It has now been replaced, however, by selective and sensitive instrumental methods that directly analyze many metals in aqueous solutions. Principles of specific methods » Equilibrium separations » Zone melting. Another separation procedure based on liquid-solid equilibria is zone melting, which has found its greatest use in the purification of metals. Purities as high as 99.999 percent often are obtained by application of this technique. Samples are usually in a state of moderate purity before zone melting is performed. The zone-melting process is easy to visualize. Typically, the sample is made into the form of a thin rod, from 60 centimetres to 3 metres (2 to 10 feet) or more in length. The rod, confined within a tube, is suspended either horizontally or vertically, and a narrow ring that can be heated is positioned around it. The temperature of this ring is held several degrees above the melting point of the solid, and the ring is made to travel very slowly (a few centimetres per hour) along the rod. Thus, in effect, a melted zone travels through the rod: liquid forms on the front side of this zone, and solid crystallizes on the rear side. Because the freezing point of a substance is depressed by the presence of impurities, the last portion of a liquefied sample to freeze is enriched in the impurities. As the molten zone moves along, therefore, it becomes more and more concentrated with impurities. At the end of the operation, the impurities are found solidified at the end of the rod, and the impure section can be removed simply by cutting it off. Ultrahigh purities can be achieved through multistage operation, either by recycling the ring several times or by using several rings in succession. ... Principles of specific methods » Particle separations » Particle electrophoresis and electrostatic precipitation. As the name implies, particle electrophoresis involves the separation of charged particles under the influence of an electric field; this method is used especially for the separation of viruses and bacteria. Electrostatic precipitation is a method for the precipitation of fogs (suspensions of particles in the atmosphere or in other gases): a high voltage is applied across the gas phase to produce electrical charges on the particles. These charges cause the particles to be attracted to the oppositely charged walls of the separator, where they give up their charges and fall into collectors. =============================================== http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...-precipitation There are several techniques for chemical separation discussed here, most of which wouldn't be available to TEGA since it wasn't designed to do these types of separations, such as filtration or osmosis separation. However, the method of crystallization separation might work. Here since different materials when dissolved will recrystallize at different times as the water is slowly evaporated, the particles that crystallize first will settle to the bottom in the water first, then others as they crystallize, thus separating the materials into layers. An analog of the zone melting technique mentioned, might work when applied to TEGA. However as described here it appears to require a method of varying where the heating is applied in the TEGA chamber. I don't know if TEGA has this capability. Finally, the method of using electric charges to separate out the materials might work for TEGA since it uses a mass spectrometer. With a mass spectrometer you detect different molecules by vaporizing and ionizing them, and determining how fast the different ions move under applied electric and magnetic fields. Here, we would first use the electric and magnetic fields to separate the ionic species dissolved in the water without raising the sample to high temperatures for vaporization, then later use the usual mass spectrometer method to determine which molecules are present. We might also want to further ionize the dissolved ions in the water to help out the separation process. Bob Clark |
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Life on Mars | Andrus Enigma | Conspiracy Theories | 34 | 09-June-2008 11:24 AM |
| Hacker changes Phoenix Mars Lander Web site | schlaugh | Small Media at Large | 14 | 02-June-2008 07:06 PM |
| HiRISE Does It Again; Captures Phoenix On Mars' Surface | Fraser | Universe Today Story Comments | 0 | 27-May-2008 10:00 PM |
| Welcome Back to Mars: Phoenix Lands Successfully! | Fraser | Universe Today Story Comments | 0 | 26-May-2008 02:30 AM |