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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 18-June-2008, 09:42 PM
a-l-e-x a-l-e-x is offline
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I hate the term "Plutoid." Sounds too much like "Hemmorhoids." As for the other terms: Brontosaurus and Eohippus, why were they changed? You dont see scientists trying to change the names of existing species; why did they do with extinct species?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 18-June-2008, 10:20 PM
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You dont see scientists trying to change the names of existing species; why did they do with extinct species?
Sure they do. Take a look at the history of the American Ornithologists' Union Check-list of North American Birds. They change the English names (and Latin taxonomy) of existing species all the time. For example, the most recent supplement changed the official English name of the common pigeon (Columba livia) from Rock Dove to Rock Pigeon. Similarly, the common names Sparrow Hawk, Pigeon Hawk, and Marsh Hawk were dropped a few decades ago (now American Kestrel, Merlin, and Northern Harrier, respectively).
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 18-June-2008, 10:26 PM
a-l-e-x a-l-e-x is offline
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Ahhh ok-- thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impression that the terms Kestrel, Merlin and Harrier were actually the European equivalents of Sparrow Hawk, Pigeon Hawk and Marsh Hawk. Did they make the changes to create consistency?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 18-June-2008, 11:09 PM
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Eohippus is now usually refered to Hyracotherium.
In paleontology, if two species are found to be the same the older synonym is kept. That happened to Eohippus and Brontosaurus and many other species.

PS. Eohippus ("dawn horse") may be a misleading name. The species may have been not only the ancestor of horses, but also the ancestor of rhinoceroses and tapirs. Of course, "hyrax-like beast" is no better. Hyraxes may be related to elephants.
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Old 19-June-2008, 04:23 AM
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Ahhh ok-- thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impression that the terms Kestrel, Merlin and Harrier were actually the European equivalents of Sparrow Hawk, Pigeon Hawk and Marsh Hawk. Did they make the changes to create consistency?
That'd be my guess. North Americans made an awful mess of the once clear-cut falconer terminology, and this was probably an attempt to restore some of it (but we still get to call buteos "hawks" instead of "buzzards" ).

I looked it up, and the Merlins and Harriers here are the same species as their Eurasian counterparts, while the Kestrel is very similar to it's Eurasian equivalent, but a separate species.
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Old 19-June-2008, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Kullat Nunu View Post
In paleontology, if two species are found to be the same the older synonym is kept. That happened to Eohippus and Brontosaurus and many other species.
These aren't species, they're genera. The original brontosaurus, B. excelsus Marsh 1879, is agreed by just about all dino workers to represent a different species from the type of Apatosaurus, namely A. ajax Marsh 1877 (same guy). The question is, are they distinct enough to be put in different genera? The consensus is no, making the former species Apatosaurus excelsus, but it's essentially a question of convention.


The situation with eohippus is more complex - it's not clear that the North American fossils that Eohippus was errected on are all that closely related to the European type species Hyracotherium leporinum. Some systematicists would break up Hyracotherium into a whole slew of different genera, including a resurrected Eohippus.
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Old 30-June-2008, 06:50 PM
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Maybye they could take a cue from Baseball. There are some interesting names there.

Like the time Coco Crisp threw out Cap'n Crunch and 40% Bran.

He should have given the other 60%.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-July-2008, 11:43 PM
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As to using quotes, I still haven't figured out how to do multiple quotes in the same post. I would greatly appreciate it if you would enlighten me on how to do this.

I don't believe that an unclear or large number of planets would be unacceptable to the general public. We have billions of galaxies and billions of stars which are then divided into multiple subcategories. Why balk at doing the same for planets? People tend to be far more excited by the addition of new planets than by the "removal" of one.

So why not keep dwarf planets as a subcategory of planets that are in hydrostatic equilibrium but do not dominate their orbits? This way both the geophysical and dynamical concerns are incorporated into the definition. It is very likely that Dawn and New Horizons will reveal that these objects have geophysical properties that make them in many ways far more like the major planets than like asteroids.

The ability of an object to dominate its orbit becomes more and more difficult the further that object is from its parent star. A Mars-sized object in the Kuiper Belt would not necessarily dominate its orbit and certainly would not clear its path of other, non-round KBOs. So we still have the contradictory situation where the real Mars is a planet but an object of the same size in the Kuiper Belt, according to the current definition, very likely would not be one. This needs to be rectified because it classifies an object solely by where it is and not by what it is.

The claim that supporters of reinstating Pluto's planet status are a "small but vocal minority" is highly questionable. It is being made by supporters of the IAU decision who have a vested interest in not having the debate reopened. I don't think anyone has taken an official census, but there are many astronomers who are not happy with this decision and want to see the vote redone. Ninety-six percent of the IAU's membership could not vote because they were not in the room. I think it is highly unlikely this issue will not be reopened in future General Assemblies, especially the one in 2015, when the data from Dawn and New Horizons will be in, at which time it is quite likely a far more broad conception of the term planet will be adopted.
Dwarf Plants as a term doesn't make sense, a more proper term for them would be Belt Planets. That way if we find a Earth Sized or larger planet in a belt or cloud system, we are not calling them Dwarfs!

Thats my only problem with thier definition, it's putting a term in the definition that probably will turn out to be inacurate.

As far as Dwarf Planet as a term goes, that sould basicaly be changed to define any planet with a half earth mass or less.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 09-July-2008, 06:00 PM
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I thought of a new term yesterday....not that it's any better or worse than any of the others, just one to add to the list! (Pluto's a dwarf planet...a plutoid....a Kuiper belt object...a trans Neptunian object....too many categories!)

Asteroid belt objects: Asteroids
Kuiper belt objects: Kuiperoids!
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-September-2008, 07:25 PM
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Why not simply stick with "dwarf planet"? Pluto is kind of "planetish", and kind of non-planetish too. It doesn't seem as Plutonish or Plutoidish as "Dwarf planetish".
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 12-September-2008, 01:02 AM
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Still raw
http://xkcd.com/473/
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 12-September-2008, 02:40 PM
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I don't think they need to create a new category to accommodate Pluto. They could easily call it and Eris 'dwarf planets'.
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