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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 11-May-2009, 09:42 PM
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A Spacereview article on the Administration's review of human spaceflight. Its conclusion is good or bad, depending on your point of view re. NASA.

Bob Park gets his wish: "It's time for another Augustine Report"

Quote:
“Never set up an inquiry unless you know in advance what its findings will be.”
...
The appointment of Norman Augustine to lead the review makes the outcome even more predictable.

When Vice President Quayle established an independent review of the space program in 1990, he took the naive risk of actually making it independent. The review came back with findings that directly contradicted the Bush Administration’s policies, notably the Space Exploration Initiative. The Augustine Commission put science as the highest priority of NASA, with guaranteed funding. Aeronautics, human spaceflight, and engineering were a distant second
(My bold)

I've mirrored this in Damburger's Ares V thread.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 12-May-2009, 03:07 AM
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Sounds good to me, as long as we start up a new agency responsible for space infrastructure and access but not science.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 15-May-2009, 05:37 AM
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MSNBC: Former astronaut likely to be new NASA chief

Quote:
Former astronaut Charles F. Bolden Jr. will meet with President Obama in the Oval Office on Monday morning and likely will be appointed the new NASA administrator, a senior administration official told NBC News on Thursday.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 15-May-2009, 07:12 AM
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I gotta say, looking over his Wiki entry, that I'm impressed with the guy's resume. A Marine, combat pilot, and he's flown on the shuttle four times. With that kind of a background, it seems unlikely we'll see a dramatic scaling back of manned spaceflight.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 15-May-2009, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckerfan View Post
I gotta say, looking over his Wiki entry, that I'm impressed with the guy's resume. A Marine, combat pilot, and he's flown on the shuttle four times. With that kind of a background, it seems unlikely we'll see a dramatic scaling back of manned spaceflight.
Except that NASA administrators don't decide agency policy, they implement administration policy.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 15-May-2009, 07:30 AM
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Except that NASA administrators don't decide agency policy, they implement administration policy.
How many Marines have you dealt with? If he's not happy with the direction Obama wants to take NASA, he will speak up about it. He'll do it in private, he'll do it politely, but he will get his point across, and he'll be Obama's equal in intelligence. I have a feeling that if Obama wants to gut the manned program, Maj. Gen. Bolden will raise one heckuva ruckus, resigning in protest if he thinks that will help (and I seriously doubt that he'd even take the job before finding out exactly what Obama wants to do with NASA).
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 15-May-2009, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuckerfan View Post
How many Marines have you dealt with? If he's not happy with the direction Obama wants to take NASA, he will speak up about it. He'll do it in private, he'll do it politely, but he will get his point across, and he'll be Obama's equal in intelligence. I have a feeling that if Obama wants to gut the manned program, Maj. Gen. Bolden will raise one heckuva ruckus, resigning in protest if he thinks that will help (and I seriously doubt that he'd even take the job before finding out exactly what Obama wants to do with NASA).
Actually, I was a career military officer (Army, not Marines) and I have quite a bit of experience in dealing with other military officers of all service branches. Above and beyond personal druthers with regards to what he personally feels would be the best direction for the space program, a career military man is goiing to follow the orders of, and accomplish the mission given to him by the commander in chief.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 15-May-2009, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
Actually, I was a career military officer (Army, not Marines) and I have quite a bit of experience in dealing with other military officers of all service branches. Above and beyond personal druthers with regards to what he personally feels would be the best direction for the space program, a career military man is goiing to follow the orders of, and accomplish the mission given to him by the commander in chief.
And in a case where he disagrees with those orders, he'll most likely resign. The man left NASA and returned to the Marines, like the original Mercury astronauts, he's got combat experience, which means that he's not likely to be a "political" general (though he's no doubt got measurable skills in that area as well).

Obama stated in the past that he wanted to see NASA return to being the inspirational agency he remembered from childhood. Picking a director who comes from a similar background as the original astronauts as well as having been in space fits within that statement of Obama's much better than a "bean counter" who could be expected to keep costs low (see the years when Goldin was in charge and the mantra was "better, faster, cheaper").
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 15-May-2009, 01:25 PM
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I agree with Tuckerfan, Bolden is pro manned spaceflight and I don't think he would have accepted a job that goes against his beliefs. I would much rather have a former astronaut than a bean counter any day.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 15-May-2009, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckerfan View Post
And in a case where he disagrees with those orders, he'll most likely resign. The man left NASA and returned to the Marines, like the original Mercury astronauts, he's got combat experience, which means that he's not likely to be a "political" general (though he's no doubt got measurable skills in that area as well).

Obama stated in the past that he wanted to see NASA return to being the inspirational agency he remembered from childhood. Picking a director who comes from a similar background as the original astronauts as well as having been in space fits within that statement of Obama's much better than a "bean counter" who could be expected to keep costs low (see the years when Goldin was in charge and the mantra was "better, faster, cheaper").
Well, we shall see. The only issue that concerns me, is the quoted statement (which is all too familiar and unwelcome among manned flight advocates)
Quote:
The appointment of Norman Augustine to lead the review makes the outcome even more predictable.

When Vice President Quayle established an independent review of the space program in 1990, he took the naive risk of actually making it independent. The review came back with findings that directly contradicted the Bush Administration’s policies, notably the Space Exploration Initiative. The Augustine Commission put science as the highest priority of NASA, with guaranteed funding. Aeronautics, human spaceflight, and engineering were a distant second
You may be right in that he would resign or refuse to take the position, but then choosing an astronaut to place manned spaceflight on a back burner is a pretty politically shrewd move. Especially if phrased right. Its real easy to put a lot of people off the scent if things are characterized as "revisiting the shuttle replacement issue," "rescheduling the manned lunar return issue in light of current national economic concerns," etc.,. I mean even if the intent were to totally kill all manned space flight, it is doubtful that any president would couch such in those terms.

From my read of this administration so far, and their approach to science, and space issues in particular, they're looking for splashy headlines with the minimal amount of expended effort or real investment. probably something along the lines of a scaled back Orion with all or most of the beyond LEO capability and functionality stripped out leaving it basically a taxi to ISS. Simultaneously they may announce a new round of paper studies for a more robust Shuttle replacement. Regardless, at least they are, hopefully, about to put a face on NASA, and we shall know soon enough if that is good or bad.
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 15-May-2009, 08:15 PM
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Would this be the first time NASA would have an administrator with actual spaceflight experience?
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 15-May-2009, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
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Would this be the first time NASA would have an administrator with actual spaceflight experience?
Acting Administrator Frederick_D._Gregory

Quote:
Frederick Drew Gregory (Colonel, USAF, Ret.) is a former NASA astronaut and former NASA Deputy Administrator. He also served briefly as NASA Acting Administrator in early 2005, covering the period between the departure of Sean O'Keefe and the swearing in of Michael Griffin.
I don't see other candidates in the List of Administrators.
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 25-May-2009, 07:43 PM
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I don't see other candidates in the List of Administrators.
May I introduce Dick Truly?
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 25-May-2009, 10:17 PM
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*Knocks head into wall*

Why do I stink at research?
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 26-May-2009, 04:46 AM
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BBC article on Bolden.
Quote:
"He's a real leader," George Abbey, a former head of Nasa's Johnson Space Center in Houston, and friend of the major-general, told the Associated Press news agency.

"Nasa has been looking for a leader like this that they could have confidence in."
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 27-May-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
Actually, I was a career military officer (Army, not Marines) and I have quite a bit of experience in dealing with other military officers of all service branches. Above and beyond personal druthers with regards to what he personally feels would be the best direction for the space program, a career military man is goiing to follow the orders of, and accomplish the mission given to him by the commander in chief.
Except that if Bolden is a NASA Administrator, Obama isn't his commander-in-chief.

CJSF
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 27-May-2009, 05:54 PM
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Except that if Bolden is a NASA Administrator, Obama isn't his commander-in-chief.

CJSF
We were discussing career military mindsets, and my comments were made in response to the suggestion that as a career Marine officer, the nominated NASA chief wouldn't let Obama tell him what to do and wouldn't follow a course he didn't believe in.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 28-May-2009, 12:11 AM
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People refer to the President as their commander-in-chief all the time, even if they've never been in the military at all.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 31-May-2009, 07:12 AM
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Kai, the president is not the "people's" commander-in-chief. He is the Commander-in-Chief of the US armed forces. If one refers to him as everyone's commander-in-chief, they are in error. He IS the "people's" chief executive, but that is a very different thing.

I understand your statement, Trakar, I just respectfully disagree. Obama should have no authority over NASA Adminstrator Bolden as a commander-in-chief of the armed forces. If he were made administrator of some military space agency, then it would be a different matter.

CJSF
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 31-May-2009, 02:38 PM
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I wasn't saying that it was correct to refer to the President as the people's commander-in-chief, just that non-military people sometimes do, even though it is erroneous to say so.
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 31-May-2009, 03:21 PM
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Understood...carry on.



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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 01-June-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
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Kai, the president is not the "people's" commander-in-chief. He is the Commander-in-Chief of the US armed forces. If one refers to him as everyone's commander-in-chief, they are in error. He IS the "people's" chief executive, but that is a very different thing.

I understand your statement, Trakar, I just respectfully disagree. Obama should have no authority over NASA Adminstrator Bolden as a commander-in-chief of the armed forces. If he were made administrator of some military space agency, then it would be a different matter.

CJSF
Though the majority of NASA is composed of current and ex-military personnel and it has a military priority, special relationship with the DoD, its status as a prima facie "civilian" space agency is completely irrespective of the nature of the discussion or statements made.

IOW, I understand (and generally agree with) your statement, it merely has no bearing in the discussion in which my statements were made.
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