And all of the digits that we use were invented by the Arabs.

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Quaeso quousque humi defixa tua mens erit? Nonne aspicis, quae in templa veneris?

The Indians. Sorta.

Hmm. Interesting. I thought always thought that they were Arab in origin. Thanks.

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Quaeso quousque humi defixa tua mens erit? Nonne aspicis, quae in templa veneris?

Yippee. They may or may not have invented mathmatics. Problem isn't with their past achivements, it's in the lack of new ones over the past 1000 or so years. You're dealing with a culture that has chosen to remain in about 1200ad. It's their choice, just like the Amish choose to live about 3 centuries behind everyone else. Just don't call them modern in the context of civilization.
The middle east's culture is horribly barbaric compared to western standards. I'm not saying we're all roses and sunshine, but that makes the arabs even worse by comparison.
I'll absolutely agree that the middle east was at one time (a very long time ago) the hub of knowledge and advancement. Under Muslim rule, Jeruselem was a free and open city until the christians came along with their crusades.
But that's about where the middle east's clock stopped. Blame it on the pope if you want. But they have chosen to cling to a culture and mindset that became outdated about the time the west started making real progress.
Now of course that is my assessment with my western mindset. I'm sure they'd argue that our love of porno, booze, fast food, and materialism is not really much of an advancement. So it's subjective.

So everybody runs with Arab/math thing, to keep on topic- but I guess you just can't help being an incurable bigot.

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<3

Arabs HAD a high culture at one point - and yes, they preserved Greek mathematics while Europe slid into Dark Ages. And I can point exactly when that high culture ended - 1449, when Ulug-Beg, probably the most educated and enlightened ruler of his time, was murdered by the "mad mullahs" all but identical to the rabid Islamists of today.

They succeeded in dragging Arab culture back into theocratic feudalism just about when Europe got out of the same.

--Gee, that contributed so much to the conversation. I was sure I read a 'no insulting' rule on here somewhere.
I'll try to show better judgement and not respond to political correctness dogma with the fervor it deserves to be treated with.
What I will do is point out that rather than clinging to the political correctness at all costs, even if it denies reality, that perhaps some experience in the world outside of a college campus and liberal teachers, or that whole fantasy about how we're all just the same and if we could hold hands and get along....blah blah blah.
Been all over the middle east. It's nowhere you'd want to be. No culture you'd want your mother or sister to have to endure. Nowhere you'd want to have to rely on a criminal justice system or look for a representitive gov't. No place you'd even want to use a toilet (usually just a hole in the floor). Certainly no place to be able to voice your opinion about anything the secret police might not like.
Some one who has actually been outside of the US's protective cocoon would know those things. Someone not clinging to the political correctness partyline might have the intellectual honesty to be able to evaluate the two types of cultures.
It's pretty funny since this 'bigot' has risked his own life to liberate arabs in Kuwait, build shelters and protect muslims in Kosovo. Fed children from my own supply of food from Africa to Bahrain. Enforced UN sanctions to keep Saddam from committing genocide on Shiites and Kurds.
But keep talking. It's fairly amusing.

What I find amusing is the assumptions you've made about me. Infact, I've never been to the United States, I live in Australia. When you refer to a 'party line', I can't help but feel you must have me mistaken for someone else.

I don't think everyone in the world could hold hands and get along, but I believe in letting other cultures live according to their own rules. You yourself referred to the 'relative' nature of cultural values.

I believe in a touch of humility with diplomacy, and instead of pointing the finger at so called barbaric civilisations, taking a good long look at your own.

However, I don't think any of my friends, colleagues or aquaintances would call me politically correct.

I've been to many places around the world, and have seen such things with my own eyes. Did it occur to you that maybe I'm not sheltered or ignorant, but I just have a different viewpoint? I never took a gun with me on my travels. Of course, if you're genuinely defending your country then I think that's courageous, and I applaud you for your contribution to humanitarian efforts, but that's not the issue here. (please don't read sarcasm into this)

The issue here is no matter how much you try and tell me you know and have experienced, you still deep down think that people in the middle east are, to quote you "Spear Chuckers", and no amount of self righteous rhetoric is going to change the fact that you are a bigot.

Please don't think that I am anti-American. I have met many Americans before and found them to be largely good people. There can be no doubt on the cultural and political influence of the USA on the western world. Infact, my country and yours seem to have good diplomatic relations and most people here are very glad of that.

To me, you are trying to blur the lines between people with a different culture, and terrorists. I feel that is deeply wrong, and felt compelled to speak out even though its off topic and possibly hazardous to my continuing membership of this board.

I truly hope we can drop this stupid discussion now, and agree to disagree. This is supposed to be an astronomy board.

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<3

I think that once a Nation has the ability to deploy and effectively operate military forces in space, then the military itself should be restructured.

If troops can be deployed in space, then they must be trained and equipped for space ops. The distinction between Marines and Army, for instance, would seem meaningless, as both branches would, and should be reconfigured for space ops. Thus, the Space Marines are born, and would operate aboard ships and stations, and trained for making landings on hostile worlds, operating in a variety of environments -- air, land, sea, and space -- and boarding enemy ships and facilities.

The Navy and Air Force would merge into an Aerospace Force. Though surface vessels and aircraft would remain in use, the new focus would be on air AND space operations.

Of course, none of this would ever take place until international cooperation can be forged, and our aerospace industries can be kicked into overdrive.

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Angel of the Abyss
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"I am Ripper...Tearer...Slasher...Gouger. I am the Teeth in the Darkness, the Talons in the Night. Mine is Strength...and Lust...and Power! I AM BEOWULF!"

And of course not until our species has established a large and permanent presence on several other planets/moons or off-world habitats. For the simple reason as long as military conflicts are largely concerned with territorial concerns here on earth any kind of Space Force is only going be an adjunct (even if possibly an important one) to the battles that will be waged by inevitably much larger terrestrial forces.

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Note 1. All requests for planetary demolition must now be submitted in quadruplicate on form UX-565/B4 and be counter-signed by the assistant administrative officer for interstellar traffic calming - department QG-7. Subject to approval by the chief planning officer and the infrastructure development coordination sub-committee.

Talk about resurrecting an old thread! How did you even find it?

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Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint.

It's a newbie taking a logical approach by starting at the beginning to get caught up with the site. Maybe?

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Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)

It's more like a newbie found a topic he could really sink his fangs into.

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Angel of the Abyss
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"I am Ripper...Tearer...Slasher...Gouger. I am the Teeth in the Darkness, the Talons in the Night. Mine is Strength...and Lust...and Power! I AM BEOWULF!"