SUMMARY: This image mosaic was taken by the Mars Spirit rover while it was still sitting on its landing platform - the direction is to the southwest of the landing site. The landscape is very flat, scattered with small rocks and occasional shallow depressions; the narrow peak of a hill is visible seven to eight kilometres away. The image was taken using Spirit's Panoramic Camera. Image credit: NASA/JPL

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Dear Fraser

The picture's great . However, I am not overjoyed by a photograph <_< that conveys no useful new information .

Is there any here :blink: ?

How much did this photo cost the American public :unsure:?

Photos make good PR in the space community.

But elderly taxpayers who cannot affort prescription drugs :angry: may not be amused.

With kind regards,

Oliver
om@umr.edu
http://www.umr.edu/~om
http://www.ballofiron.com
http://www.chem.umr.edu/web/facres/manuel.html

If the rover was ONLY sent to take pictures I'd agree with you. But it's gathering a whole wealth of valuable information. I'm sure the camera itself cost relatively little!

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Climate Change Australia

Hello Oliver,

It is indeed a great picture. The thing is though that the sending home of "happy snaps" is totally secondary. The whole point of sending pictures home is so manipulators can see what is surrounding the rover and tell it where to go and gather its very useful data. Data on whether there exists life in other parts of the universe, for example. That'd be pretty important wouldn't it? Even elderly taxpayers and you might get a kick out of that one. non?

Of course .. it still is a great picture. But it is so much more.

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1·618033988749894848204586834365638117720309179805 76286213544862270526046281890244970720720418939113 74

Are you really a professor?

__________________
Climate Change Australia

I entirely agree with Josh, also data on the existence of water and other interesting tell-tale signs are quite possible from these rovers. They are really the first stepping stone, and who knows what is over the next hill?

__________________
Damien,
International Baccalaureate Physics teacher
Optics, Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing Instrumentation Major
Admin: Pacific Science and Art

Yes, an elderly one <_<. (Click on bottom line to see an abbreviated resume.)

And I agree that sending home of "happy snaps" is totally secondary. :P

But consider the reaction of an elderly person, worried about the cost of prescription drugs. <_< . Do you honestly think he/she sees these as "happy snaps"? :blink:

It may well be that "it's gathering a whole wealth of valuable information" , but in the case of the Galileo mission to Jupiter NASA spent about a billion dollars, sent us the "happy snaps", and misjudged or ignored the valuable information :angry: .

For example, the Galileo mission:

1. Found Hydrogen and Helium isotope abundances that could NOT be transformed into those in the Solar Wind by burning deuterium - a major discovery! :P. The data are in a paper by my students:

http://www.umr.edu/~om/abstracts/nolte_lietz.pdf
http://www.umr.edu/~om/abstracts/nolte_lietz.ps

2. Found evidence of "strange" Xenon isotopes in Jupiter, UNLIKE those in the Sun but INDISTINGUISHABLE from those linked with primordial Helium and "interstellar diamonds" in meteorites - another major discovery! :P. (In 1983, we predicted Jupiter would contain "strange" Xenon.) The Jupiter data are in a report by another of my students:

http://www.umr.edu/~om/abstracts2001/windl...leranalysis.pdf

Can you find either of these discoveries mentioned by NASA? They sent us "happy snaps" from Jupiter and ignored or misjudged the useful data. :angry:

Do you think NASA will act differently with the data from Mars? They might reap great PR benefits from "discovering evidence of Martian life", but who would believe their story? <_<

With kind regards,

Oliver
http://www.umr.edu/~om
http://www.ballofiron.com
http://www.chem.umr.edu/web/facres/manuel.html

firstly Oliver - wow!

I can see your point now...what other discoveries/predictions have you and your students made!? and what exactly is 'strange xenon'?

__________________
Damien,
International Baccalaureate Physics teacher
Optics, Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing Instrumentation Major
Admin: Pacific Science and Art

I'm over 50 and on S.S. Disability. The $188 I get a month doesn't begin to cover my $400 plus pharmacy bill. I see the future in these photos. The next generation with all their goals and accomplishments to come. It's Progress! Take a look at Disussion: Bush set to Announce a Return to Mars. There's a lot of forums here, but that one addresses the cost issue.

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All the answers are out there, you just have to find the right question. A. B. Gaston

"Strange Xenon" is enriched in isotopes made by rapid nuclear reactions in a supernova.

NASA poured funds into research groups who claimed that fission of superheavy elements made "Strange Xenon." That may have been good PR for NASA, but it was not good science. :angry:

Hence our debate with the University of Chicago group [Science 195, 208-209 (1977)]. There we noted that all Primordial Helium and Neon in the Allende meteorite accompanied "Strange Xenon". :unsure: Little or none was associated with normal xenon, like that here on Earth, when Allende formed. :unsure:

So we suggested that the "Strange Xenon", Primordial Helium, and Primordial Neon all came from the outer layers of the supernova that made the solar system. If so, then normal xenon likely came from the deep interior of the supernova, where light elements were transformed into heavy ones, like Fe, Ni, S, Si, by fusion reactions.

Subsequent measurements on meteorites and planets confirmed: "Strange Xenon" was linked with "Strange Tellurium" [Nature 277, 615-620 (1979)] (enriched in isotopes made by rapid nuclear reactions in a supernova) and with Primordial Helium and Primordial Neon at the birth of the Solar System! [Icarus 41, 312-315 (1980); Meteoritics 15, 117-138 (1980); Comments on Astrophysics 18, 335-345 (1996)].

Superheavy element fission was finally abandoned as an explanation for "Strange Xenon." :P Since then, NASA has been pouring funds into research programs that claim "Strange Xenon" was brought into the Solar System in "Interstellar Diamonds"! <_<

This cannot explain and therefore ignores the link of all Primordial Helium and Primordial Neon with "Strange Xenon"! :angry: How could the bulk of these highly volatile elements be carried into the Solar System in highly refractory dust grains! :blink:

In my opinion, there is no convincing evidence for "Interstellar Diamonds", "Interstellar Carborundum" (CSi), etc. in meteorites. <_< These seem to be another of NASA's PR campaign!

NASA administers need to realize for themselves the basis of science: "Truth is victorious, never untruth." [A quote from the Upanishads used as a motto for the 1999 ACS Symposium that Glen Seaborg and I organized on the "Origin of Elements in the Solar Sysyem"]. Go to http://www.wkap.nl/prod/b/0-306-46562-0?a=1 to see the Proceedings contents and contributors, or go to http://www.wkap.nl/prod/b/0-306-46562-0 to buy the Proceedings.

With kind regards,

Oliver
om@umr.edu
http://www.ballofiron.com
http://www.umr.edu/~om
http://web.umr.edu/~om/resume/resume.pdf

Please keep this conversation on topic about Spirit's landing site. Otherwise I'll close the topic.

__________________
Fraser Cain
Publisher
Universe Today - Free space news delivered by email every weekday.

Dear Fraser,

Please accept my apologies.

With kind regards,

Oliver

resolution stinks!

Yes , but Fraser cannot let the issue of needed housekeeping at NASA creep into every discussion about their latest project. I agree with him on that.

Perhaps Fraser would be willing to start a discussion about NASA's past performance and areas where improvements could be made.

Personally, I am convinced that NASA's engineering and astronauts are great assets!

It is only NASA's dogmatic approach to science <_< and their willingness to overlook unpopular experimental findings <_< that I find objectionable.

Hopefully, Fraser will help us find a way to air this!

With kind regards,

Oliver

The you go Oliver,

A direct refutation to your idea that elderly people would think it's a watse of time. Anewton ( a confessed person in the elderly age group - no offence of course) said it's worth while...

What's more, who cares if some cranks think it's a waste of time to send back happy snaps?? If that's how they feel then they are too small minded to see the big picture anyway.

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I think we have a few threads on the forum that gripe about NASA. If those don't meet your needs, start a new one. :-) NASA definitely has its detractors. And reading the CAIB report about the Columbia accident sure tells you some of its main problems, though. If you want a fairly balanced look at NASA's challenges, check it out:

http://www.caib.us

__________________
Fraser Cain
Publisher
Universe Today - Free space news delivered by email every weekday.