NASA's revised spending plan was sent to Congress. To pay for Hubble repairs and the Shuttle return to flight, things like Prometheus, Terrestrial Planet Finder, ISS research, and Mars Science Lander were significantly cut or delayed. Read and discuss!

Delaying the MSL to 2011 sounds bad, but they were thinking about doing this already but at the same time adding a second lander. I think I could live with that.

I also don't see anything more about canceling support for the Voyager and some other missions, which sounds like a positive step.

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You forgot the $400mil in congressional earmarks. I wonder what scientific ratings these "earmarks" get? I remember reading a peer-review of a DOE program a while back where the "earmarked" programs got rock-bottom evaluations. In fact, it was so bad that the writers of the review openly complained about it in the summary as a burden to the program.
Getting rid of the $400mil earmarks easily restores a good chunk of the reduced programs.

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(Reuters) - A nasty budget fight is brewing in Congress as Senate Democrats and some conservative Republicans said Friday that they will not support efforts this month to increase U.S. borrowing authority, a move needed to avoid a government default....


....In a speech on the Senate floor, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid put all 55 Senate Republicans on notice that they "are going to have to belly up to the bar and vote to increase the debt," saying it was Republican budgets that have created the massive deficit spending requiring more federal borrowing.
"Democrats are not going to vote to increase this debt," Reid said.
Without an increase in U.S. borrowing authority, the federal government could face default. That would mean Washington would not be able to continue writing checks for a variety of activities, from meeting federal workers' payrolls to paying some retiree benefits. Federal parks could close, aid for the poor could be withheld and the space shuttle likely would be docked.

Shutdown looms if Senate doesn't up credit




From cuts in money to restore the Chesapeake Bay to fewer dollars for biomedical research, Maryland would feel a pinch under the budget proposed yesterday by President Bush.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...al-news-nation
While the budget sent to Congress does contain some bright spots - including $900 million for Amtrak and money for repairs to the Hubble Space Telescope - the state's lawmakers and advocates blasted suggested cuts in education, health programs and federal grants.


Budget cuts will hurt NASA, scientists say
NASA's $16.8 billion budget request for fiscal 2007 guts important science programs to pay for the shuttle's comeback and the completion of the international space station, scientists told a congressional oversight committee Thursday.
But even those two programs, as well as President Bush's proposed mission to the moon that was announced with much fanfare two years ago, are in jeopardy without an increase in funding, they warned.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3697819.html
"The lunar mission was supposed to be Apollo on steroids," said Wesley Huntress, a former NASA official who directs the geophysical laboratory at the Carnegie Institution of Washington. "Now it's Apollo on food stamps."
But a more pressing problem, Huntress and other leading scientists testified during a House Science Committee hearing, is that NASA is turning its back on the type of scientific research that could inspire the next generation of American scientists and engineers.

None. Earmarks are rarely related to science at all. They are special projects designed to make constituents happy, and usually are associated with buildings, parking lots, memorial drinking fountains & etc. Sometimes they will be related to science, perhaps having to do with contracts, or other jobs, directed towards a Congressional district. They may be relevant to a science or engineering program, but probably do not conform to what NASA would have done, left to make its own decisions. It is a common practice for Congress to micromanage the NASA budget, and determine for itself, which programs will come & go. That's how the old NASA SETI program was finally eliminated, by act of Congress.

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SUMMARY: With the release NASA's 2007 budget request, it was clear that the productive science programs will be paying the price for the new Vision for Space Exploration, returning humans to the Moon and then sending them on to Mars. Dozens of programs will be affected. We review the missions, what they were supposed to accomplish, and what the cuts will bring. It's not a pretty picture.

View full article
What do you think about this story? post your comments below.

Thanks to a horrible budget those outrigger scopes at Keck won't happen...
.....so Dawn finally got cancelled, I thought there was hope for it


what a disaster !!



TPF getting cut is even worse

Some really good programs are going to be lost, like SIM Planet Quest, Beyond Einstein and the Explorer program.

It seems we've got our priorities badly wrong. Wrangling over a $17bn budget, in the process losing many fascinating programs with undoubted scientific benefit, when the Iraq War will come to a total of around $200bn. Without making political judgements on the necessity of the war, I really do think it says a lot about the lack of public and governmental will to really continue making big scientific breakthroughs.

Again, what a shame. Hopefully ESA will continue with its robotic, scientific missions in NASA's stead, until it can offset the costs of the Shuttle, CEV, etc.

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If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
-- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)

These space science funding cuts are foolish and shortsighted. Space science missions have taught almost all of what we know about the solar system. These cuts are supposed free up funds for human exploration,
yet how can we intelligently explore the solar system when we are cutting the very missions that are gathering data which will be crucial for the success of future human missions? I personally think that the next to worthless international space station should be canceled. This would free up billions of dollars for space science. Think about how much more HST and Mars probes have taught about our universe versus how little has come out of the international space station.

*SIGH*

Why does all of this even surprise me given much of the "mainstream's" hostile stance against science now days.

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just to add: Dawn - Canceled

This is madness!!!

I am most shocked by the "indefinite delayment" of the Beyond Einstein program.

Or maybe SOFIA... The thing is FINISHED!!!

One space mission that is not mentioned here is the James Webb Space Telescope. This mission is now so large and so far along that it has become "un-cancel-able", but it's running horribly over budget and will launch in 2013 at the earliest - and everything else suffers. Sure, JWST will be a fantastic instrument, but this is too much hurt.

At least the final Hubble Servicing Mission now looks almost a sure deal - provided that the Shuttle Return to Flight works flawlessly, of course...

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These are the wonders at your feet
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The Universities have got to get their alumni into the public eye. I'm not against using our nation's desire for finding extraterrestrial life as the gimmick. Universities are already too much under the thumb of federal monies. I nominate Donald K. Yeoman's as the TV guy. Carry on and remember that budgets are the most variable phenomena in the Universe.

Given budget constraints and the need to live up to our obligations some of these cuts make sense. Some do not and strike me as being idiotic, but I am not sitting in the hurricane seat, Mike Griffin is sitting in that seat and he's the one who has to make the call. I suspect that if he had been given is druthers, he would dump the shuttle system tomorrow morning.

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I think you're quite right. I think Griffin has tried to limit the cuts' effect on 'useful' scientific programs as much as is possible. The problem doesn't really lie with him.

The problem lies with priorities, public and governmental. People just aren't prepared to put money up and really get behind scientific programs. The problem is partially a widespread and increasing ignorance (the rise of pseudoscience like creationism and a lack of patience with non-Hollywood science issues like asteroids) and partially a deliberate attempt to downgrade the importance of science (deriding it as 'ivory tower,' or 'liberal'). The government, too, seems to put feeding the beast that is the military budget with ever greater lumps of pork higher than scientific programs - at least that's popular.

The world is too focused on things like religious extremism, terrorism, globalisation, etc. to pay a mind to scientific, philosophical and intellectual development.

__________________
If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
-- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)

Thanks Bush -

Thanks for you and your 4 TRILLION dollar+ run up of the national debt
Thanks for all the guys & gals getting killed over in Iraq fighting to keep?? uhh I guess innocent Iraqi people dying??
Thanks for keeping us at war in a time when the economy cannot keep pace with it
Thanks for pizzing off nearly every country on a global scale
Thanks for putting a bunch of monkeys with equally inferior or even less intelligence into your cabinet and posts of importance
Thanks for trampling all over the consitution with your "all in the name of safety" spy/patriot act
Thanks for ignoring congress on several occasions and doing as u please

[Moderator note: removed bad language and inappropriate comments.]

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May the force be with you.

At this point, everybody needs to take a deep breath and try to think rationally. Bickering over this with harsh words and using ones own judgment is not the answer. Remember the New Horizon Mission was also on the chopping block. But it was saved by a seventeen year old who made a web site about the injustice of the cancellation of the mission. The mission was saved because millions of people responded to the WEB SITE. Today people, (your average JO Blow) doesn’t know what really all these missions are about and why they coast so much or who do we bother by sending a probe to study a bolder in space. People need to be shown the reason for these cancellations of these missions could hurt us very much in the future. Similar action need to take place to save the Dawn mission. Someone needs to inform the public about just exactly what these cuts are doing. Believe me the war in Iraq really has nothing to do with it.
Rather then complaining about these cut backs, we should be informing the public abut the importance of these missions and how the Dawn mission could save all of us from an asteroid hitting our planet by the science it gathers during its mission.
We need to start some kind of a campaign or project to save these missions. The people need to be informed about the true legitimacy of these missions that are going to be cancelled. The New Horizon Mission was saved this way. Why can we do the same?? Why can this web site do the same as this person did??? http://jagor.srce.hr/damirspace/pluto.htm

I am not a huge fan of President Bush and have never voted for him. However, he is the duly elected President of the United States and should be addressed as such for the sake of polite decorum if nothing else. Also, bear in mind that President Bush inherited NASA's current problems and is not the cause of them. NASA's greatest problem at the moment is the Shuttle system, which has proven itself to be an albatross around the necks of scientists and space cowboys alike. The problems cannot and will not be solved in the space of a single presidency.

The thing we need to do now is to back the current Director of NASA so that he can rid the organization of the Shuttle and get NASA back on track. His is not light duty that is simple to carry out.

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Never joined a forum before so sorry if you're not supposed to get this. Good point about the Pluto mission web-site. I could sign that, and did. As a non-American, I can't write to my congressman / senator about NASA's budget proposals. Do you know of any way non-US taxpayers can support the cause? You'll stop listening to the Voyager(s) next.

I fully support the human programs, but it goes hand in hand with the science programs. The science missions are needed because we have to learn more about the mars environment before we can send people there. Same goes for radiation exposure, or food/water/building supplies that they will need on Mars. How can we just send people there without the scientific mission information first? If we're going to do it, we should do it right, and the human program to Mars cannot be successful without science funding. There is a lot more to it than putting people in a rocket and sending them off. Whoever decides the NASA budget has to get this through their thick skulls!!

rynoski, please review and abide by our forum rules. We have strict guidelines here, including language usage and the discussion of politics. Your post above seriously violated those guidelines, and I've edited it accordingly.

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I am not so ignorant that I blame Bush for everything. But there are a lot of things that wouldnt be happening if Bush was not elected less re-elected even. NASA would have most likely a lot less severe problems if he and his cabinet were not in office. The economy downturn isnt entirely Bush's fault either and certainly that would have impacted NASA at some point but the severity of the budget cutting is coming mainly from the consequences of Bushy's Administration. Bush will have racked up 4+ trillion in debt in his 2 terms as I looked for the numbers again, Already racking up 2+ in his current situation [not 4 as far as i can tell] -- and that just hurts everyone.

As far as President ding dong is concerned I owe him nothing. Not polite decorum not even the slightest bit of respect. I didnt vote for him and I dont like just about every single thing he's done or any single "pseudo-accomplishment" in office. Granted if I ever met him I would have the tact to speak my mind intelligently and constructively and voice my displeasure at his decisions without being rude. But - since this is a message board - I will be rude to him and rant. He has got to goooo

At any rate - I do agree though with one point made a while ago -- If NASA cant beat em we should fight for em. We need some huge initiatives for donations toward NASA and its programs to keep the important scientific discoveries and exploration going. I for one would be glad to donate monthly to programs that have meaning and importance to me. Much like SETI@home or the new and coming stardust@home, helping out on projects which mean something to you - it be nice to say hey Nasa- heres 20 bucks a month, i want 75% donated to ___ and 10 here and 5 here yadda yadda....

is that better?
I know this is not a politics forum but come on - it does have to do with NASA getting money and not getting money so cut me some slack.

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This is the wrong forum for that. You are obligated to follow our forum guidelines, and that includes being polite. Ad hominem attacks are expressly forbidden here, and your latest post violates our civility & decorum standards.


No, it isn't better. As noted in the forum rules, you are allowed to discuss political impact upon space programs, exploration, and science. You are not allowed to engage in partisian political discussions here.

Your account has been suspended for 24 hours for disregarding the warning posted above. If you wish to continue posting here afterward, you will need to participate in accordance with this forum's rules. Otherwise you will be permanently banned.

What happened is totally UNEXCEPTABLE. Politics should not intervene in science funding that much. it's not cold war days anymore to shift all funding for lunar expeditions and deteriorated space shuttles. People at the white house and congress must look at the BIG picture.
TPF was the most exciting mission we were waiting for in our lifetime...NOW it is cancelled!! LET alone he EUROPA mission, this is was an extremely exciting mission that boosts our knowledge and answers the are we alone questions...it is even more exciting than having sex!
what had just happenedis unbelievable. we should MOVE, WE SHOULD ACT. sign petitions, support the planetary society, the science senators, and all the loyal people who could make a difference.
BUSH has screwed the dymond pieces of NASA's roadmap, that man has just dropped way down on my scale.
i mean look at him requesting every now and then billions of dollars for wars here and there.....unbelievable!! THIS BUDGET SHALL NOT PASS AS LONG AS WE R LIVING.

I just hope the opposition to this proposal will be as successful as it was during the lifetime of the Voyagers. Originally they were to be shutoff just past Saturn.
Experience in the past must give us hope.

sad to see tpf is killed for now. nothing would energize the public more than to detect earth-like planets, maybe even with hints of atmosphere altered by life. everything would change overnight, i think. even finding just one or two would cause a huge diversion of exploratory resources, and maybe joint efforts, to learn more about them.

Not enough funds for successful ventures from which all of humanity will benefit? I guess we'll have to accept FAILURE as America's credo.

i havent seeen any comments that identify the real problem. The government is run by people with vested interests. The vested interest in NASA is that people want to keep their current jobs, not create new ones for outsiders. That means using existing technology that people are familiar with (translation have existing jobs for). so almost nobody outside NASA thinks we are on the right track - but thats the problem - We are outside NASA, and the people with jobs and research grants to protect are the ones making decisions. Another word for what is happening is momemtum. Newton's law is alive and well and thriving at NASA.

Anyone want to guess how many jobs at NASA would be lost by dumping the space station and and shuttle programs. Anyone still in doubt as to the real reason both of these Dinosaurs will be continued ad nauseum?

maxgammon is right. those should be dumped, but they can't for political reasons + jobs in certain congressmen's (and woman's) districts, international partners, etc. what a huge waste of resources. stuck in low-earth orbit. they should freeze the space station as is, consider mothballing it as best they can, and offer the international partners some big pieces of science missions instead.

Before reacting to this, I want to know what the ESA and Chinese are doing. Perhaps their prgrams over-lapped.